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Austrians and MMT'ers UNITE!!!

Posted 05-02-2011 at 02:19 PM by hutrade [Show Appreciation] What's This?
Updated 05-02-2011 at 02:22 PM by hutrade

Hey all,

I've been MIA from IT for quite some time now. I have been gallivanting around the web learning all sorts of things both economic, trading, investing, etc.

One of the major things I have come across in my travels has been MMT (modern monetary theory) which basically explains how government debt works, taxes, and money in a fiat system. Those of you who have been around IT for a while probably still recall the epic debate Tek and I had over such issues some time ago!!! Woo-hoo!!! LOL

Anyway, as many of you also know, there is another very interesting economic school of thought called Austrian economics. Indeed many of your here at IT I believe consider yourselves Austrians (simit, jaro, forexer?, Tek?, etc.). I have fundamental issues with their fixation on a gold standard, HOWEVER I do agree with their views on the business cycle and politics to a large extent.

There is ever growing popularity with both of these seemingly oppositional groups (both of which did call the global financial crisis mind you--quite impressive to say the least), however it is becoming increasingly clear that both of these camps could and indeed should unite forces or at least find middle grounds with each other to create a more stable, unified, and balanced economic theory. A new world order perhaps some might say.

Well one such economist, named Edward Harrison, who is both an Austrian and an MMT'er has put up a WONDERFUL article on his site about these very issues and lays out the history and ideology of really where we all come from economically today.

On Ideology, economics and the compatibility of Chartalists and Austrians | Credit Writedowns

I hope that many of you will check it out and add your thoughts and opinions to the table and around the web to all your friends, peeps, and usual internet "watering holes" as the case may be. And of course maybe allow some of the more "divergent" ideas to sink into your own brains as well and let them do their magic if you will. I know personally that is what I am doing and just loving it. I'd love to hear your thoughts about these issues and ideas for clearly both the keynesians and the monetarists seem to just be up the creek without all their paddles.

To unite Austrian and MMT economics would be a huge win for those of us wanting to see REAL CHANGE in our economy and our political discourse regarding our economy. There is always room and place for argument and disagreement...however there must be common and fundamental grounds of economic truth and reality from which to have such disagreements. Austrians and MMT'ers combined just may prove to provide that common ground.

Your thoughts, ideas, readership, and comments are all greatly appreciated. Spread the word as well as these ideas and needs for these ideas are clearly growing in our society and let's make our world/economy a better place (cheesy yes but Lloyd Blankenfield surely has enough dough right!!?!?!).

Cheers and much love!! And happy trading to all as well!!


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  1. Old Comment
    Posted 05-02-2011 at 08:05 PM by slow to learn slow to learn is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  2. Old Comment
    hutrade's Avatar
    hey STL,

    and here's part 3 as well:

    YouTube - On the Edge with Max Keiser . . . and Edward Harrison (3/3)

    You'll note that in regards to sovereign debt Ed sidesteps comments about the US and focuses on Europe. He is respectfully not stepping on Max's toes on the guy's own show.
    Posted 05-02-2011 at 08:21 PM by hutrade hutrade is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  3. Old Comment
    hutrade's Avatar
    one way to clear out the Fed is to #1. have the president appoint all the heads at the Fed. #2. forbid all Fed heads to have any ties in the financial market/industry. #3. shrink the size of the Fed from 12/13 offices to 3/4 offices--NYC and DC as main ones with maybe SF and St. Louis for example.
    Posted 05-02-2011 at 08:26 PM by hutrade hutrade is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  4. Old Comment
    Posted 05-02-2011 at 08:30 PM by hutrade hutrade is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  5. Old Comment
    slow to learn's Avatar
    Originally Posted by hutrade View Comment
    hey STL,

    and here's part 3 as well:

    YouTube - On the Edge with Max Keiser . . . and Edward Harrison (3/3)

    You'll note that in regards to sovereign debt Ed sidesteps comments about the US and focuses on Europe. He is respectfully not stepping on Max's toes on the guy's own show.
    "Economic collapse is the only way people will wake up"

    I totally agree to this statement, the problem with trying to do anything with the Fed's or Central Banksters is that as a collective group they control so much wealth and can manipulate almost any scenario you could throw at them and have been manipulating this way for centuries! IMHO the only way the Fed would leave is if there was a collapse followed by a revolution and they were hunted down and caught, tried, found guilty and executed for treason!! Other wise there manipulation of over half the worlds weath gives them free pass! Andrew Jackson , Abraham Linclon and President Kennedy all failed to throw them out and I truly believe Linclon and Kennedy were killed for trying! Also there was a atempt on Jacksons life but failed so they just waited his term out and replaced him with Martin Van Buren ! Jackson was able to revoke one central bank before he left office and as soon as Van Buren was brought in he reinstated the bank almost immediately!
    Posted 05-03-2011 at 09:35 AM by slow to learn slow to learn is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  6. Old Comment
    slow to learn's Avatar
    Hutrade, the two guys above Tomas Palley and Tim Canova under estimate the power and the conection between the Federal Reserve and the Central banks they are one in the same working together for the same common goal, and that is to profit off the backs of the common hard working man and woman threw hidden froms of taxation. I agree with Palley more than Canova but they both dont fully understand the depth of the Federal Reserve. Palley said how could the Fed missed the morgage crash, what he doesnt realize is the Fed's never missed it they encouraged it on. And Canova said "do you remember when the Fed was a creditable operation durring Roosevelts time?" The Federal Reserve was created to do what they do now, they have and never will work in the interest of the people only in there own interest. They were created as a profite structure and will continue to be a profite struture for as long as they exist !
    Posted 05-03-2011 at 12:55 PM by slow to learn slow to learn is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  7. Old Comment
    slow to learn's Avatar
    YouTube - Craziest Coincidence between JFK & Lincoln

    Sorry to trash your post Hutrade Ill stop now!
    Posted 05-03-2011 at 01:53 PM by slow to learn slow to learn is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  8. Old Comment
    Magic's Avatar
    Good stuff as usual, Mario.

    I would like to jump on the bandwagon for a new Fed structure that gets the bankers out and reorganizes it to enforce reserve requirements and stop sweeping Eurodollars. The problem is it would have to be politicized and that would put fiscal and onetary policy in the same hands. Oh well.

    I read an article about an interview with Keynes and Hayek where Keynes pointed out that in his theory if fiscal and monetary policy was improperly applied by the gov it would make things worse. Hayek never admitted that gov interference in the markets would ever do any good. That is until Keynes was dead and he had his Nobel prize.

    I praised Bernanke for stepping up and turning the recession. It was excellent short-term relief that should have been followed up with demand-side monetary policy. Trying to use only fiscal policy to fix a nation's economy has never worked and has always led to hyperinflation and a crash.

    What this gov needs to do is apply the real Keynesian economics. A lot of people thinks that a policy of government interference is Keynesian but it isn't. Keynes was about demand-side employment - not this supply-side crap of cutting taxes, etc. for the banks and big corporations hoping it would promote investment and 'trickle down' as Reagan put it. The only thing that will put this country back on firm ground is to put taxpayers to work.

    I'll never agree with the Austrians who think the market forces should be allowed to run their course. It is OK when the economy is expanding and the rich as well as the poor are making out. But when the markets contract the rich keep getting richer by taking from the poor and middle class. Letting the market forces work themselves out through a depression is just not the way to go.

    Well, that's enough of my opinion. Thanks for sharing the article.
    Posted 05-04-2011 at 12:08 AM by Magic Magic is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  9. Old Comment
    Simit Patel's Avatar
    i think we are in the midst of a massive shift that will end up ushering in a new phase of economics that is in many ways a synthesis of austrian/keynesian, or bottom up/top down. but i think to truly get there, we are going to need MASSIVE political reform. i think we'll get the reform we need, though i doubt we'll get there without some more chaos.

    thanks for sharing, hutrade. good to see you back around!
    Posted 05-04-2011 at 12:41 AM by Simit Patel Simit Patel is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?
  10. Old Comment
    Tekmnd's Avatar
    Hi Mario

    Great post! I will comment more when I can, but I am reading/watching all the posts, links, and vids from this thread.

    Posted 05-04-2011 at 12:05 PM by Tekmnd Tekmnd is offline [Show Appreciation] What's This?